a 187.00 out of a 650.00 disablity check would cripple the disabled. Think on that too.


Monbade

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"Chief's have been taking care of this man's navy for a long time, Mr. Caldwell. Don't worry about him, he's got a lot of good sailors to take care of back there."

John Wayne in Operation Pacific

The woman who gave in her poorness gave two nits which is all she had. God only asked for 10%.

You know, you and I are just not going to agree on this one. I'm game to live with it if you are. I only hope others will rouse enough to be as charged over this issue.

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"...if they are angry, perturb them..." Sun Tzu - The Art of War

Agreed, the prebate issue is something we are going to disagree on plain and simple. However, we both agree that the tax code needs reform and yes, we both hope this provokes some thinking and discussion about how to repair our broken tax structure.

I am curious though why the Tri-States chose to adopt a progressive tax code at first. I know in "America Reborn'" thet have a 20% Flat Income Tax in the SUSA. Interestingly enough, the economic system is structured so that it is impossible to become a millionare in the Tri-States because the workers own the large factories and profit-sharing is the law of the land.

It is just alot of food for thought.

Hey guys, I've read your post and I tend to agree with Kolus, no prebates. While I think the infirm, elderly, and children should be helped. For the rest it would be like welfare. You get this free money every month by the government. You will do like it does to people now. Instead of trying to better their situation and give them an incentive to do better, they start to get dependent on this prebate and lose their motivation to better themselves and their situation. I don't like the class warfare thing. If a person makes $100,000 a year, why hold it against him? Are you saying he didn't do the hard work neccessary to get where he is? Didn't get the education, know how, take the risks and provide the innovations to get where he is? To strive for success? In America, you can go from pauper to prince if you do what is neccesary to get there. It has been done many times before. Who says you have to stay at $25,000 a year job. If you need more take the neccesary steps to make more. If not, deal with it and budget better. Giving money back to everyone is not the answer, it causes dependence and causes people to say it's not enough, we need more, like in America now. That's my thoughts on this. Aloha, ogi.

A correction on that quote about it being impossibe to become a millionaire in the Tri-States. It was possible to become a millionaire but was rare. I believe that was what was stated. Also remember that the book was after a world wide war. Also unlike now in the U.S. Ben Raines and the Tri-States never printed more money than they could back with gold,precious metals etc. If the U.S. did that now there would be a hell of alot less billion and millionaires than there is now. Of course because of the dollar dropping in value being a millionaire ain't what it used to be. But I sure wish I was one!!! Aloha,ogi.

Right now, I see more people favor a flat income tax than a consumption tax. I would like to hear why they favor a flat income tax over a consumption tax.

Well lets say you have a flat tax of 10% with no deductions, no loop holes
You make 12,000 in one year you pay 1200, if you make 1,200,000 you pay 12,000 each is the same becuase you pay 10 percent of your earnings. That is fair. i am figuring 1000 a month for the 12k person and 12,000 a month for the 1.2k, each person no mater who they are pays the same percentage.

monbade

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"Chief's have been taking care of this man's navy for a long time, Mr. Caldwell. Don't worry about him, he's got a lot of good sailors to take care of back there."

John Wayne in Operation Pacific

CINC:

I favor a flat CONSUMER tax.. not an income tax.

I was reading the Fair Tax proposal.. the only part of it I disagree with is the Prebate checks.

I think that is the hangup you and I were on, not the flat consumer based tax on all items, though I am in favor of taxing ALL consumables, but overall at a lower rate, say 8.5% As compared to the 10% without food, since food is necessary.

I disagree with the prebate checks. I dont think it makes sense to send out money to people who did not earn it only to give them so they can spend on whatever because they are poorer than everyone else.

I just dont buy that portion of this pie.

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"...if they are angry, perturb them..." Sun Tzu - The Art of War

I also favor a consumer tax. If you make more you buy more and pay more taxes.

I don't know if we can get by with a 8-10% NST. The NST under the FairTax is not just going to replace the income tax but all the following taxes.

Individual Income Tax
Payroll Tax
Alternative Minimum Tax
Social Security Tax
Medicare Tax
Corporate Tax
Capital Gains Tax
Alternative Minimum Tax
Estate and Gift Taxes

The only taxes remaining under the FairTax plan will be excise taxes on alcohol, tobacco, and gasoline; tarrifs on imported goods; and user fees for things such as parks.

It may be possible to lower the NST to 8.5-10% eventually as the economy expands, the national debt is retired, and we reformed social security and health care.

CINC, lets then take this topic into the benifits and drawbacks of the prebate check, the numbers as they play into Social Security ETC (look for a post by me for National Medical somewhere on the boards)

I think a lot of people are being moved here and influenced over this debate and it would be good to expand it some more for us all.

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"...if they are angry, perturb them..." Sun Tzu - The Art of War

Okay, lets go into the benefits and drawbacks of the prebate portion of the FairTax. The prebate program would cost around $650 billion right now. The NST under the FairTax would bring in $3 trillion and subtract the $650 billion from the $3 trillion, that would leave $2.35 trillion to finance the USG at the current GDP.

Now the prebates will not be enough for a person to live on by any means. The prebate is just a refund on the NST and that is it. Eseentially, those below the poverty line will recoup all the money they spend on the FairTax through prebates. The middle class who would recieve the exact same prebates will pay a larger portion of their income in NST and the wealthy will be spending up to 23% of all they spend after they recieve the same prebates as the poor and middle class. The prebates make the FairTax a progressive consumption tax which most economists say is the fairest form of taxation we can come up with.

A NST without the prebates would be simple and not have the $650 billion in prebate costs that the FairTax would have. But sales taxes are regressive taxes even though they appear proportional on paper.